Welcome to BeSBALL Talk's total coverage of yesterday's SFLOI Winter meetings. BT is comprised of SFLOI's Sal Cipriano, Ian Parfrey, and Seung Lee.Ian-First, the ballots were mighty strange this year. Like Havelock was trying to steal an election.
Sal-Weird is a definitely where Mr. Hewes started, but not uninteresting; as is always the case with our Commish.
Seung-I was distracted during the meeting so I remember thinking: Screw it, I'll vote for people I like. I remember voting for Ian 3 or 4 times, Sal 3 times and Alex for MVP 2nd. It ended up affecting a couple of close races.
Ian-I think Derek Martinez won the Gold Glove for pitcher. I'm all right with that, I don't think there's an obvious choice. The pitcher has to make some unusual throws sometimes, and I don't think there's anyone among us who hasn't thrown a potential 1-6-3 DP into centerfield. Also, the voters are saying, sorry about shafting you on everything else, Derek.
Sal-Well it was definitely you or him. No one else has the snap reflexes of you two. I voted for you on this one, but I can't recall a winner as well!
Seung-I voted for Ian, but oh, whatever. It's a decent token gesture by the league. Derek had a very good season, and it would have been a bit much if he ended the season with NONE of the awards.
Ian-Seung Lee is the Gold Glove catcher. This is a near-unanimous selection and Seung deserves it, whether he agrees or not. He backs up first base. Half of our other catchers have the pitcher cover the plate.
Sal-I just won a Gold Glove for catch at DC. If my knees weren't already shot, I'd be down for giving Mr. Lee a run for his money. His backing up of first base is top-notch, though, so he'd have me on that every day. ;)
Ian-Fred Melendez is the 1B Gold Glove. I agree with this. You could make a case for Ian Lebowitz, but Hav decided to list him at third. Most of the other good first basemen were also listed elsewhere--Bill Vernick and Gil Schmerler for example.
Sal-I voted Fred as well, who is pretty good at both corners. Bill Vernick would have been my choice, though, had he been listed. Screwed!
Seung-Where's Bill? I woulda voted for Bill. Oh well, Freddie's good. I'll vote for Freddie.
Ian-Ben Indek wins at 2B. Since Jeff chased away Sue Kostner, this was not a surprise. Ben probably should have won last year--he's a good fielder and we don't really have too many other regulars at 2B. In fact, most of our positions don't have regular tenants.
Sal-Ben is a consummate pro here. I was shocked that I was even nominated, as I played mostly Right.
Ian-Bob Holzwasser wins at 3B. Bob had a really good year with the glove, and split time between third and short, where he wouldn't have won. The rest of the 3B field cleared the way--Ian Lebowitz and Gil limited because of injuries, me pitching (and not really fielding all that well when I did play there)
Sal-Was Bob nominated for 2B? I forget, because in my head he's one of the best there, and while overall he's pretty good at all of these infield positions, third is probably the least of the three. I voted Ian Lebowitz here because I feel the guy is solid despite his injuries. He's got a magnet in that glove.
Ian-Now, here comes some controversy. How do Dave Sommers and Phil Ciccone tie for a shortstop Gold Glove? Sommers played B+ defense for 36 games, Ciccone played A defense for 15 games. I don't think you should have a Gold Glove for playing 15 games. Phil is our most talented shortstop, but he wasn't around much this year, and won half a Gold Glove on reputation.
Sal-Dave all the way here because of the reasons you mentioned. I think I would have you ahead of Phil as well just on time and quality of play.
Seung-Didn't Ian and I talk about this at some point? Several times? Oh, I don't remember. Whatever, I'll vote for Phil...oops. Does the fact that Phil's playing time was reduced because of an on-field injury affect voting? I think so. He probably got a few sympathy votes.
Ian-In the outfield, Havelock decided to give three gold gloves for LF/CF, and one for RF. I'd like some of whatever he's smoking. Yes, the four outfield gold gloves go to our 4 best CF's every year, but I'm not sure I see the problem with that. So Don Weiss was robbed of a Gold Glove (in fact, I'm reconsidering my vote right now--how could I leave off the inventor of the Vernick shift?), and the three OF gloves went to Zach Nilva, Alex Rivera, and Brian Hernandez, all of whom make spectacular catches on a regular basis. The RF Gold Glove went to Glen Lawrence.
Seung-Not giving Don Weiss the 4th OF Gold Glove was a travesty.
Sal-OK, there are so many problems here it is not even funny. First, let me say that while Havelock sited me as the one that suggested this RF award, I did not. What I suggested was that we select for 4 separate positions to avoid 4 center fielders, as I do see a problem with that. No one would ever do that for the infield, right? I feel that each OF station has a unique way of playing it, and so the awards should reflect that. Instead we got a version that just gave us just RF's, and in given us this it was explained this is where the bad players play! Wow, I was hurt and shocked by that, and I'm sure others are as well. Why bother to have this then? It was equated to 2B, too, which, hey, tell that to Ben Indek! So, yes, while RF has been determined as spot to hide bad players in many leagues, in our game a lot of balls go to Right so there is a specialized way to play there. Also, on a related note, how is that players that have not played this year got to vote? I'm sorry, but this isn't fair, and RF is one position where the voting showed this. No offense to Mr. Lawrence, who's a fine outfielder. The voting rules need to be analyzed and overhauled.
Ian-The pennant, which we do not vote on, was won by Bob Holzwassr.
Seung-Forgetting the pennant was bad.
Sal-Congrats to Bob.
Ian-Rookie of the Year was a crowded field of 6 players, and Sal Cipriano won decisively. I thought Sal should be rookie-eligible, since Alex Rivera was allowed to keep his rookie eligibility for most of the last decade. It's interesting to speculate on who wins it if Sal wasn't eligible.
Sal-I felt weird about this, but I appreciate the vote, folks. Thanks! I voted for Bill McLaughlin, the only real rookie in my eyes.
Ian-Best pitcher went to me. I did have a 14-game winning streak and finished 18-7. What's strange is that Havelock finished 2nd, and not Derek, who was 14-6. That's what happens when the award is named for you, and the ballot, designed by you, is in the spirit of Florida in 2000.
Sal-I felt you were the way to go on this. You seemed like hardest worker on the mound last year, and the most unflappable.
Ian-And the MVP--I get by one vote over Derek, 42-41. On the one hand, Derek hit 26 home runs, and had about 200 more points of OPS (1474 to 1265). On the other hand, I out-pitched him by a little, played in 14 more games, and my teams finished 8 games over .500. To me, that's too close to call, and the voting agreed with me. Truthfully, I would not have minded a tie. Havelock's ballot only listed three possible candidates. Not sure I--or anyone there--agreed with that.
Seung-A tie would have been fair, but I'm perfectly happy with the results. I'd rather Ian win by a point than lose by a point.
Sal-This was a tough one, and could have gone either way, depending on how you read stats. I do think this was a two horse race, with Alex finishing a distant third in every scenario. Freddie was a guy that could have been nominated as well. He came on very strong late in the year.
Ian-We invented a new award (proposed by Jim O'connor, I think?)--The Marvin Cohen Award, and promptly voted it to Marvin Cohen. This will be an award for the player who makes the greatest contribution to SFLOI outside of the game.
Sal-I think this is a fantastic idea, and I applaud Jim for it. I was a little perturbed that there was a some resistance to it. Huh?
Seung-The Cohen Award was suggested by Don Weiss. I thought it would be a nice touch to recognize people for contributions outside of pitching and hitting. I could think of three people who deserve it: Havelock for putting up with everyone, Gil for umping when he can't play, and Don for being willing to ump pretty consistently. I remember Dave being adamantly against the wards, for what I thought was a fairly good reason (we don't need to recognize EVERYTHING with an award). But, how do people vote against giving the award to Marvin once we vote it into existence?
Ian-As far as rule changes and proposals went, pretty uneventful. I proposed a vote on bringing back the World Series. It didn't pass, probably because of all the communists in the game. There was discussion of the selection of teams, which I thought provided a good opportunity to discuss this civilly, instead of in screaming matches between games.
Sal-For the WS to work, I think it should be related to the Pennant somehow, but I'm not sure how that would/could play out. I voted against this year, but I feel given the proper spin it should happen.
Ian-There was the annual resolution to play the winter league in central park, but it didn't come to a vote. Hav said he'd look into getting a better field than east 10th, which seemed to satisfy most people. I like the way we play the winter season. i always have. The fields are nicer in central park, sure, but I also like the variety of fields we see in the winter, and they tend to make you feel better about yourself as a hitter. I don't remember what else we discussed.
Sal-I, too, like the nomadic nature of the fall-winter season, so I was opposed to this Central Park thing last year as well. It is not easy to get permits, so to just give them up is not smart. Why bother trying for other unpermitted fields, unless you have to? Because you don't like a field? The area? What is it? You play where you have permits-that's it, end of discussion.
Seung-Don and Sal were specially recognized at the meeting, which I remember bringing up, 'cause I thought it was important that they get all the recognition we could give em. It was the least the league should do. Waiving their dues for the year was a really nice touch (Though I don't remember who suggested that part). Of course, I also wonder if the treasury could also absorb optional due waivers for the three officers (Havelock, Gil and Ian), since you know, they also do unpaid work for the league.
Sal-I agree with this. Those three should be waived, without question. I appreciate the waiving. I'm also making test SFLOI shirts, so this helps!
Seung-Random thoughts: Myc-y had a big bowl of dumplings right before the meeting, 2 clementines and some bread during the meeting and a big bowl of egg, rice and tomato after the meeting. And he didn't take a dump, either. I'm glad I'm not changing his diapers today. Gil apparently is addicted to Pepsi. I only know this because that's the reason Anne has straws in the house. That was good. Cause Myc-y spilled pretty much a half cup of water on his shirt prior to that. Glen and his book. Havelock trading baseball cards. Bill and Ian and his video...This year's meeting was pretty surreal.
Ian-Thanks to Gil & Anne for hosting...and now that this is over with, let's play some fuckin' ball.
Seung-In closing: I concur with Ian: Thanks Gil, and Anne. Now, let's play three!
Sal-I would have went straight to a field after the Meetings! Bring it!
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